October 13, 2004
Debate Thread
Remember, you can aim/ichat "musedebate" to send commentary on the debate.I saw the moderator on The Daily Show and thought he was a nice guy, but I've heard since then he's a bit of a GOP shill. I've been told to expect a lot of wedge issue questions for Kerry, and softballs for Bush.
The stage looks identical to the Jim Lehrer debate.
Big smile, John. Big smile. He looks good.
Here we go.
Strange first question - will we ever be as safe as we were in the good old days? "The measurement isn't 'Are we safer' - it's 'Are we as safe as we ought to be?'" Good.
Dailykos consensus - Bush looks orange. I don't see it, but... there's dailykos for you. ;-)
Bush's voice is much calmer. So far. And he's wearing his happy face. And, out comes the "nuisance" attack.
"Gosh, I don't think I ever said 'I'm not concerned...' one of those exaggerations." And, the dkos consensus is that yes, Bush said exactly that. Here comes a video clip.
Okay, flu season. Flu vaccines. Wow, Bush is answering... was the question telegraphed? I'm not so sure this is a political issue. Ohhh.... here he's talking about medical litigation stuff. Again, Kerry's got to come back on this one. The goal is to reduce the number of frivolous lawsuits, not the damage limits. Okay, good - Kerry brings it to the health insurance matter.
Bush isn't screwing so far, but Kerry is doing well as usual. "This president has turned his back on the wellness of America."
"A plan is not a litany of complaints." What? Calls it bait and switch. Kerry smiles in return. However, Kerry doesn't seem to smack that one back as well as he could.
Question: how to pay for things without raising taxes for those under 200k. Kerry, "pay as you go".
Bush: "Rhetoric doesn't match his record." Kerry is smiling a lot in reaction. Bush is saying that Kerry is ... hold on. What? PayGo? PayGo?
PayGo! Bush is reduced to baby talk. Well done, Kerry.
Bush has a plan to CONTINUE to grow our economy... I guess in the direction it has been growing? In the negative? You can't cherry pick a couple of months.
dkos comment: Wow, it sounds like Bush would do a lot if he... were... president... ?
And a line: "Getting lectured by Bush on the economy is like being lectured by Tony Soprano on Law & Order."
Schiefer is evenhanded so far - kept a rebuttal opportunity from each candidate.
Okay, I think Kerry is getting into his zone, that's good. Good stretch on sending the jobs overseas, how you get a tax credit.
"We've increased Pell Grants by a million students." Fact check? Is that what Kerry said wasn't true?
dkos comment: "It's your money... that's why I gave it to the rich!"
"Charlie, anyone can play with this votes. Everyone knows that." Good job smacking it back to Bush.
Bush starts to whine about Kerry's record... Bush didn't look good there.
Wow. "Do you believe homosexuality is a choice?" Wow. Man... I'd like to see Kerry show some leadership here. But I don't know what the right play is. Still, this counts as a question that is tailored more for Bush.
Wow... Kerry mentions God a lot in the homosexuality thing. That'll comfort centrist and liberal religious folks, and really piss off the fundies.
Kerry invokes Kennedy. He invokes Kennedy again. And talks about God a lot. Wow. People will remember that.
Bush mentions a "culture of life"... which is a code phrase.
Man, these tax free savings accounts plans... I don't like them, especially in conjunction with health insurance plans. What good does a tax savings account do to someone who is poor enough that they don't pay federal taxes and can't afford health insurance?
Because of that paragraph, I didn't really listen to what Bush was saying. My bad!
Ugh, Shiefer: "A MASSIVE plan..." "Where are you going to get the money?" Didn't he already ask a question like this?
Bush says he's not so sure that it's credible to quote the news media... and then his ear starts to bleed and he said "never mind." hahahahaa
Shiefer: "We all know Social Security is running out of money." Ugh. It's so much more complicated than that. Social Security is actually much healthier than that. It's something that has been exaggerated by Grover Norquist and all those guys.
Good. Kerry on Bush's Social Security plan: "That's an invitation to disaster." That's exactly what it is.
Bush: "Most of the tax cuts went to lower and middle income Americans." Fact check time! Big lie. And now Bush looks like he's about to cry.
Hmmm... immigration. Most old-style conservatives don't think Bush is doing enough on this route.
Gap between richer and poorer is rising. Good question for Kerry, to balance out that other one that was tailored for Bush.
Very nice line - I'm tired of politicians that talk about family values but don't value families.
okay what's the deal with the mitch mcconnel minimum wage plan?
Bush is saying that the NCLB act is actually a job act. So now he's ignoring minimum wage to talk about it. And now he's just speaking platitudes again, with no details.
Here's a key moment of the debate. Moderator asks Bush about roe v wade, Bush declines to answer fully, cuts his answer short. Kerry is slamming Bush on the education matter. Great moment - right now I'd say that the debate is turning into a clear win for Kerry.
Followed by a softball question for Kerry where the moderator actually says "back door draft" - things are going well for Kerry.
Bush about the armed forces: "People I've talked to - their support has been high" or something. What's that about him requiring loyalty oaths before he talks to them?
Okay, Bush FINALLY brings up the first Gulf War.
Good interplay on the assault weapons question - it favored Kerry.
Affirmative Action question.... Kerry says that Bush hasn't met with the Congressional Black Caucus. I'm not sure that's right.
Rethugs are going to fall all over themselves praising Bush's words about religion.
I'm not sure there is much to say about the rest of the debate. I've just been watching. I think Kerry was the same guy we've seen in the prior two debates, and Bush was too. Overall the pattern is that Bush makes an allegation, Kerry takes it apart, and Bush dumbly makes the same allegation. Bush's only hope is for people to be stupid enough to elect him.
Post-Debate spin coming up. I'll have final thoughts later.