July 19, 2003
Abortion Thoughts
I've probably written about this before in a previous entry, but I just made this comment over at the Howard Dean weblog and thought I worded it well:Regarding the abortion issue - when someone is asked exactly where they stand on an issue by being asked to answer a series of highly specific questions, it's a bit of a catch-22 because sometimes a pointed premise or allegation can be snuck into the question. On the other hand, avoiding the questions too obliquely can look too much like day-to-day politics.
The previous commentor mentioned that viability was the issue. I think this is a loser issue because the date of viability is going to move backwards as time goes on and as technology increases. It's a good thing that a premature fetus's survival chances are increasing due to technology, but the abortion conflict has never been about the life of a fetus/unborn-child versus the power of technology. It's been about the life of a fetus/unborn-child versus the liberty of the mother.
As viability moves back, if this is accompanied by laws that make the date of illegality move back, then this is accompanied by the liberty of the mother decreasing. This should not be eroded.
I do believe, however, that a president (especially a doctor) has the responsibility to face the abortion issue head-on and support policies that continue to ease the conflict.
What's important to recognize is that pro-life and pro-choice are not contradictory; they are merely oblique. I think the best approach to take is to recognize that both sides of the debate (when they are not being disingenuous) agree on one thing: the need to reduce unwanted pregnancies. Then using *that* as the objective, a president can advocate a series of programs that are proven to reduce unwanted pregnancies in a population. These programs would not be limited to left and right; there is no reason why a birth-control-education program could not be funded along with a program to counsel uncertain mothers on how to adjust to their recent accidental pregnancies and actively support them.
What would be perfect in terms of society and pregnancy would be if every pregnancy were aligned with the conscious, active intent of the parent(s). This is of course impossible to attain, but it's not impossible to support programs that move us further in that direction.
That's what I'd be advocating if I were running, anyway. ;-)
I took your advice Curt. I am reading some of your other post. While we might not agree, I believe we can disagree in a civil manner. I do agree with you about how someone is asked about their stand on a specific issue. To me the issue of abortion is a simple question. Do you believe in abortion? Yes or No? Simple! Having said that, I do realize there are situations in which genuine concerns arise. For instance: What about rape? What about incest? What about the health of the Mother? let me say that I believe a “woman” may have an abortion but a “Mother” will not! Just because a woman can give birth does not automatically qualify her to be a Mother. A Mother will give her own life if the choice is her life or the baby’s. The same goes for a man. Most men can father a child but not all can be “Dads”. There is a world of difference! All you have to do is look at the statistic on abuse. Appalling! Personally I am against abortion for any reason. I don’t lump all the people into one category that are for abortion. There are some that don’t give it a second thought about aborting a child. Problem solved! Let’s get on with our lives! There are some that agonize over it. If they have the abortion, they may spend the rest of their lives in guilt. Diametric opposites, but both with the same “problem”. There are no easy answers but we better find some fast. Here are some statistics from Alan Guttmacher Institute:
Abortion Fact: From 1973–2002 43,358,592 abortions were performed in the United States.
Americans’ views concerning abortion:
60% say abortion should be legal only in a few circumstances (42%), or illegal in all circumstances (18%). CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll, January 2003
88% favor a law requiring doctors to inform patients about alternatives to abortion. CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll, January 2003
78% agree that women who have abortions experience emotional trauma, such as grief and regret. Wirthlin Poll, 1998
70% believe that legalized abortion is not necessary for women to pursue various educational and career goals. Wirthlin Poll, 1998
Why do women have abortions?
75% say having a baby would interfere with work, school, or other responsibilities
66% (about) say they cannot afford to have another child.
50% say they do not want to be a single parent, or have relationship problems with husband or partner.
Less than 2% have abortions because they became pregnant as a result of rape or incest.
Alan Guttmacher Institute, Facts in Brief: Abortion in the United States, 2000
The clock is ticking....
One baby is aborted every 24 seconds
151 babies are aborted every hour
3,629 babies are aborted every day
110,397 babies are aborted every month
These are the ones that were voluntarily reported!
I’m sorry for taking up so much space but this issue so important! For those that are for abortion, these are just numbers. Not numbers of any consequence, just meaningless statistics! As for the programs, will they help those that are already considering abortion? That’s too late! Programs will not teach responsible behavior. Programs will not produce a conscience! Have you heard the story about the man who asked God why hasn’t he sent someone that will find the cure for cancer and the many diseases that cause so much suffering? God’s answer: “I did but he was aborted last week!”
Well, the whole thing about defending abortion due to the possibility of rape or incest is kind of a loser defense anyway. I know that rape/incest abortions are in the vast minority.
The statistics are interesting; I don't know anything about whether the organization that did the polling questions is reputable or independent and don't really feel like looking it up. :) But let me take a gander at the stats:
42% say legal in a few circumstances. Well, that's phrased in such a way that it maximizes the chance someone would pick that choice, because "few" is so vague. I assume one of the other choices was "many" or "all" circumstances.
One other thing I find about polls is that if you remind people that they can deem something "wrong" without it being "illegal", then their support for making something illegal goes down.
88% requiring a law for doctors to inform... I believe doctors should inform patients of all treatment options, especially alternatives to abortion. I don't agree with there being a law requiring it though. I also hate HMO rules/laws that require doctors to not tell patients about certain treatment options that might be too expensive or uncovered by insurance. One thing I'm sure must be true is that a significant percentage of those 88% would also be in favor of a law that restricts doctors from giving out information on abortion procedures (I also oppose that). I'm simply against laws that seek to control a doctor's medical judgment by legislating their speech.
78% say women with abortions experience emotional trauma: I am depressed that it is that low. Unless there's 22% out there that believe that all women who have abortions are complete monsters (given that 18% think abortion should be illegal in all cases, maybe that's not a surprise). I think that it shows those 22% are kinda crazy though. I think abortion is an extremely upsetting and traumatic experience, which is also why I believe it serves as its own control and does not need to be lawfully protected against an army of evil women who would otherwise do it without a second thought. It would be a hugely personal and upsetting decision for anyone. I'd be very concerned about someone who actually enjoyed the experience; in my mind they would either be cruel or sick.
70% "not necessary for..." - that's a slanted poll question. "for women" can mean "all women" or "some women" depending on the frame of mind of the person being questioned. I can put myself within that 70% if I look at the question the right way, but I'm strongly pro-choice.
I'm basically someone that will admittedly completely overlook and refuse to take seriously that 15-20% of the population who believes that women should stay barefoot and pregnant, that they are nothing but babymaking machines, that they should submit to men's conception demands, should also not use birth control, and should be happy to raise the resulting children, that men shouldn't have to take responsibility for the children they conceive. Pro-choice isn't just about choice on whether to have an abortion; pro-choice is about the right to have a child-raising experience connected to a woman's positive intent.
If there were a way to protect women's intent, choice, and liberty without having abortion, I'd be in favor of that. Hopefully over time that will be more and more possible for it to happen before conception.
Posted by: Curt at July 24, 2003 06:33 PMI am a survivor of incest and rape. I have written a book about my life that will be released in a few more months. I was wondering if you would be interested in reviewing it and possibly reffering it to some of your site visitor's that may have experienced a similar trauma. You may even want to list it on your site as a possitive book written by an incest/rape victim. My book is about my life and the choices I made that helped me to become who I am today. The title is "Daddy, I Forgive You." Please let me know if you would be interested in at least reviewing my book. I believe it could help so many people. Thank you. Cindy
I do not belive in abortions because that is called murdered and also because i think that nobody has the rigth to decide over someone's else's life .. i think that is very wrong because everyday they are killing babies that cannot defend their lifes and are taken away ... i mean is not their fault that they were in someones body ... they didnt asked for it either so think twice before abortin .
Posted by: Ana at October 12, 2003 04:49 PMI am 22 and was taking part in another mans affair, we started using protection a little late, I am 9 wks pregnant. I have been told I will ruin so many lives, and relationships, not only by the man but also by friends of my own. I believe that abortion is not a choice. I dont know how else to defend myself to this man other than saying it is not a choice in my head. This man has even lost a child before. He has no remorse for his actions, and continues to down talk any positive future out look between him and the child I am bearing. I wish I knew the right things to say to defend myself. I know right from wrong, he might never or will he?
Posted by: Katie at December 3, 2003 06:03 PMI think that you shouldn't be having sex if you cant take care of your responsabilities PERIOD.
Posted by: Judy Rodriguez at January 5, 2004 11:28 AMLots of different viewpoints...here is mine. Mandatory sterlization for all males once they turn 13. Reversible only when in a serious relationship where male agrees in writing to be financially, emotionally, physically and morally responsible for thIker all, we chicks can't get pregnant without sperm..right?
Until that happens (yeah, as if!!), here are a few common sense groundrules.
Men - if you are against abortion, then don't cause one. Make male birth control a #1 national priority. And if the little buggers do leave your body and impregnate someone, how the woman choses to react is up to her...you had your chance to prevent this and you either couldn't or wouldn't.
Women- have kids when they are wanted. If you want an abortion, get one. If not ready for motherhood and are against abortion, adopt it out. YOU are in control of your body...don't take that responsibility lightly.
Right To Lifers - Practice what you preach. You want kids to have a life? Fine...get your butts off the sidewalk holding hands in a ridiculous "Life Chain" and instead adopt so many of the abused and ill-treated children that currently (barely) exist in these United States.
Anti-abortionists - consider for one brief moment that your opinion is just that...your opinion...and don't foist it on others that just don't share your opinon.
Religious Fanatics - See above.
That's my 2 cents.
Posted by: Calichick at January 5, 2004 11:04 PMtypo above in the first paragraph...should say 'responsible for all their offspring...after all"...and in the 3rd paragraph should read 'how the woman chooses'...will do a better job of proofing next time around!
Posted by: calichick at January 5, 2004 11:09 PMThis is in regards to the last comment about men causing abortion and how they should male birth control a national priority.
If the pregnancies are because the man's little buggers escape their bodies, then what about that BIG 'OL FAT EGG that is being housed in the woman's body? ...and what about your right to protection? If women don't want to get pregnant, then why don't they seek more protection instead of leaving it all up to the man? There are more ways for a woman to protect herself than a man, although men should still be using the condom to protect themselves!
Being a woman myself, I believe both parties should be responsible. Unfortunately, many women don't agree with me--I believe that men should have an equal say in what happens with the baby. During the time a woman is still able to abort the baby, I think men should have equal rights. If a man doesn't want the baby, then relinquish him of all responsibilites (IF THE BABY IS NOT BORN YET). If a man skips out on a woman and leaves her to deal with a toddler, I say go after that man for every dime that he has to provide for that child.
I am not for or against abortion nor do I feel my opinion should replace anybody elses. I just wanted to include my thoughts and to provide a different point of view...especially because I am a woman.
"Freedom of religion is a good thing. So is freedom *from* the religion others would impose on those who differ." -Charles Kimball, "When Religion Becomes Evil"
Apply this well-made point to abortion: While people have the right to choose not to have abortions based on their convictions, they do not have the right to force their world view on others. You have a right to your religion, I have the right to be free *from* your religion, to keep your church out of my bedroom and my body.
Posted by: Tamara at April 9, 2004 04:45 PMExcellent post, Tamara!
Posted by: calichick at April 9, 2004 10:32 PMi think allwomen needed to be able to have there own opinion on if there HAVING A KID OR NOT, BUT I ASLO BELIVE THAT IF A WOMAN IS HAVING A SECOND ABORTON AND THERE ARE NO PROBLEMS WITH EATHER OF TE CHILDREN THEY SHOULD BE STOPED.
Posted by: miranda at May 27, 2004 08:34 AMabortion is wrong in everyspect. if you are woman enough to lay down and spread your legs then you should be woman enough to deal with the consequeces. abortion should be tried just as third degree murder is. you are killing an innocent child.
Posted by: sara at December 9, 2004 06:59 AMI believe abortion is totally wrong to. Abortion is just like look at a baby straight in the face in shooting him point blank. They are both murder the only difference is u aren’t looking the baby in the face. People think if they don’t have to see it its not happening. Millions of babies are slaughtered for the crime of being unwanted. When abortion is brought up usually u hear its the women’s choice. Well what about the child the innocent child he has done nothing to you but u are murdering him like he is nothing like he doesn’t matter. You say it will get in the way of things or make up some reason. Well you at least had the chance to live for a while he had nothing. Its crazy how we can get a ticket or thrown in jail for some of the simplest stuff even staying out past curfew. But yet u can walk in to a doctor’s office slaughter an innocent child and nothing will be said to you. I am 16 I am nothing perfect far from it I am falling school most of the time I have Diabetes but I have learnt there is a price to pay for everything though I love kids to death I am not ready for one so a am a virgin that’s the reason no other that but if one day i end up pregnant i can at least say that baby will always be loved If you want u can email me at Bummer_33@hotmail.com
Posted by: Natalie at December 12, 2004 10:09 PM